I hope I am not breaking any laws by posting this fragment from the Spider Queen center.
If the odd rows are knit from right to left and the even rows from left to right, I get this:
If all rows are knitted from right to left, I get this:
Speculation and comments welcome! The goofed-up swatch seems much more attractive to me, but perhaps I am missing something.
Well, I like the "mistake" swatch better myself; more symmetrical, etc. But I do think the (theoretically) "correct" swatch looks more spider-webby.
ReplyDeleteBut what do I know?
Dina
Methinks maybe there's a typo in the directions. The "mistake" swatch seems more like the correct one! It also look like the picture of the finished shawl. Are there other portions of the shawl or other charts which are worked in the round, where every row WOULD be worked from the right, and they just forgot to change the captioning?
ReplyDeletethe top one is definitely correct. :) I seem to remember that designer has an odd way of charting things--I'll take a look at the pattern again tonight and get back to you...
ReplyDeletethanks for the chart I am going to try it right away
ReplyDeleteI definitely prefer the top swatch (I can't call either one "right" or "wrong," how very PC of me)
ReplyDeleteI can't say for the rest of the chart, but in the portion that you posted, the even rows are essentially the same read from either direction. Regardless of where the numbers are placed, I've never seen a pattern that charts flat knitting like that - usually it's R-L on Rightside (odd) rows, and then L-R as you turn and work across the Back/Wrongside (even) rows.
Perhaps it is a typo in their instructions? I think the first one seems right, as the knit stitches line up over the previous row, as charted.
The top swatch is correct. The tricky part is that you have two edge sts on one side, and one edge st on the other side. If you work back and forth (odd rows l to r, even rows r to l), it comes out quite nice.
ReplyDeleteI'll post a picture (in white!) on my blog of the part I knitted a while back.
I told a lie. The pattern for the central square says "always work from right to left." That's what I get for trusting my memory. Doh!
ReplyDeleteI'll still post a picture on my site.
For the pattern excerpt you posted, all the the even rows are symmetrical about the vertical axis, as long as you only do 1 repeat of the pattern. I'm not good at visualizing things, but I think all the stitches are off by 1 for each extra pattern repeat you'd do.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the point of a chart, while primarily offering a handy shorthand for the stitches, secondarily was to give you a view of the pattern as it would look knitted up. If all the rows are indeed R->L and you aren't working circularly, then the chart doesn't accurately represent the pattern at all. I think there's a typo and a confusion in the written directions.
I'm not sure which one is the mistake swatch (I am so not a lace knitter), but I like the top one better. I mean, it's supposed to look like spiders, right?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I want to give you major kudos for letting us all live vicariously through you and all that lace.
Janice is obviously the expert here and her WIP on her blog looks like your top swatch. I definitely think that's the correct version. I agree with the others that part of the "help" of a chart is being able to visualize the pattern, so the finished product should theoretically look something like the chart. It's unfortunate that the directions are so unclear, it looks like it'll be really pretty!
ReplyDeleteI don't have this pattern, but there's a similar spider pattern in Sharon Miller's Heirloom Knitting. The spiders are spaced farther apart on the garter stitch ground and they have an extra last row (same as rows 5 & 11) making them even more spider-like. Sharon also "modernizes" the decreases by working SSK on the left sides of the spiders and k2tog on the right. As most everyone has said, your first swatch is the more correct one. HTH!
ReplyDeleteClearly, I need to rechart this and swatch again. I might just discard this pattern altogether and use the one in Heirloom Knitting. Thanks, everyone, for the input.
ReplyDeleteComparing it to Lace Freak the top one is correct. The bottom, while quite interesting, is not following the chart correctly. I think that your swatch needs bigger needles, it just seems too closed. The sample from above seems a lot more airy. Try it on larger needles and then see how it looks to you.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why I'm even saying any of this, you're far more experienced than me and I drool over everything you finish.
Can't comment on the correctness of either, but I, too, like the goofed-up swatch better.
ReplyDeleteDear fleegle,
ReplyDeleteCan you say firestorm of comments? The top swatch is the one that Hazel Carter charted but if you prefer to do your own thing then going to Sharon Millers book and putting what you want inside is a great idea too. I noticed that the original was not very "lacy" unless I used bigger needles and thinner yarn. Even then, there are sections of the shawl that are mostly solid knitting without much lacy goodness. I haven't decided what to do myself but I'm too busy overhere with WRS to start Spider Queen.
I know you looked at my mid-block photo, but compare it to the finished photo above it (on the blue background). The very leggy look of the stitches in the edge in the mid-block piece looks far less open in the final.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wiseneedle.com/string-or-nothing/PermaLink,guid,0891a59c-2b73-9c3a-c679-0007e96ddfa0.aspx
I also remember thinking that "this couldn't be right" and having to go on trust for far longer than I thought I'd have to before the thing proved out to look anything like the pattern photo. Stand back. Stand wwaaaayyy back. As you can see from my pix, a little distance makes a big difference.
Dear fleegle,
ReplyDeleteOn row 11 of the pattern, are you working the double decrease between the repeats and the k2tog at te end?